I totally disagree with Stallman’s views and personally I do find them pretty worrying.
But I also disagree with the concept that employers should be the executive of the court of public opinion.
We have real courts and real police, we don’t need to invent a secondary one where people lose their jobs due to shitstorms.
If you think he did something illegal, report him to the police or sue him. If not, then this is freedom of speech. Even though he uses the freedom to voice a pretty crappy opinion.
I mean, if everyone who said something that lots of people disagree with, I guess we would all be unemployed now.
I disagree. Things you say have consequences. The things you say actively reflect on your employer and future employers. You can try to deny it all you want but that’s the fact. I for one look poorly on the FSF for reinstating Stallman and I don’t think the FSF is a body of decision-makers that are capable of making the right choice. That’s kind of a major part of the FSF.
The things you say actively reflect on your employer and future employers.
why?
Imagine a interview where employer tries to know every aspect of your personality and ideas, before hiring you.
Seems quite impossible.
For a celebrity like Stallman seems easy. But imagine checking the background of a random candidate just to see if she posted something bad years ago. And rejecting her application because of a post defendig the wrong ideas.
I agree we already have courts and police. If he did something illegal, there’s a course of action there.
For a random, non-public-facing employee, sure. But Stallman is the founder, and has always been the face and the voice of the FSF. He’s their mascot, their evangelist. He’s the one people see and think of when they think of the FSF. If he’s out here spouting extremely problematic views, and the FSF continues to employ him, then it looks like the organization as a whole is supporting those views.
I’m pretty sure that most people are mature enough to differentiate between an organization that makes software and nothing at all to do with kids and/or sexuality and that old wierdo’s personal views.
We live in a world where huge corporations with a revenue higher than the GDP of many countries routinely exploit child labour and work their workers to death or suicide, burning whole countries and pushing climate change while at it. And yet we collectively shrug and still buy Nestle, Apple, Samsung or H&M.
A shitstorm towards such a niche and unknown organisation as the FSF really doesn’t matter. We all know the Stallman and the FSF, because we are into computers, software and/or open source. But ask any random person on the street, thew wouldn’t know who Stallman or the FSF is if you told them that it’s not Android but actually Chrome/Android SDK/Dalvik/Toybox/Linux that runs on their phone.
I’m pretty sure that most people are mature enough to differentiate between an organization that makes software and nothing at all to do with kids and/or sexuality and that old wierdo’s personal views.
That’s not how PR works.
We live in a world where huge corporations with a revenue higher than the GDP of many countries routinely exploit child labour and work their workers to death or suicide, burning whole countries and pushing climate change while at it. And yet we collectively shrug and still buy Nestle, Apple, Samsung or H&M.
This is just whataboutism.
A shitstorm towards such a niche and unknown organisation as the FSF really doesn’t matter. We all know the Stallman and the FSF, because we are into computers, software and/or open source. But ask any random person on the street, thew wouldn’t know who Stallman or the FSF is if you told them that it’s not Android but actually Chrome/Android SDK/Dalvik/Toybox/Linux that runs on their phone.
So just because the FSF is a niche org, we should just ignore the problematic public statements by it’s founder and the person who’s always been at the forefront of their PR?
Tbh, this just sounds like free speech absolutism apologia. Yes, people can say whatever they want. But they are not free from consequences. I want nothing to do with an org that would have Stallman as a part of it. I don’t want to be associated with anyone who would. If you continue supporting an org that supports someone like Stallman, then both you and the org approve of the things he’s saying. Period. Your words mean nothing. Your actions speak for themselves.
Your actions do nothing. You complain on the internet about some guy that said something you don’t like. Nobody from FSF is gonna read it. And neither will Stallman or anyone that matters.
I don’t see you boycotting software related to FSF. And even if you do, it doesn’t even matter, since the overwhelming majority of FOSS users never donate any money at all.
You are no customer of the FSF, you just enjoy their stuff for free.
So your actions amount to angry screaming into a box.
Doesn’t the phrase “wrong ideas” worry you a bit? I don’t agree with everything Stallman says, but I think he has a right to say it, just the same as others have the right to say they don’t like it and think he’s a horrible pig or whatever. This is, of course, very different from acting on beliefs like his, which could certainly end up being harmful.
But when we as a society get to the point where we say an idea is wrong, it provokes the individual to act on the idea rather than talk about it. That’s why freedom of speech is so important. Let the idea air and argue with it in a civilised way, and these things will sort themselves out.
I used the phrase “wrong ideas” precisely to evoke that sentiment. Stallman’s ideas may be “wrong” for us, for good reasons. But that doesn’t make them objectively wrong. And he doesn’t seem to cross any legal boundary using his blog to defend some ideas we don’t like.
And neither should we mix the work of FSF with Stallman’s weird blog posts.
If you think he did something illegal, report him to the police or sue him. If not, then this is freedom of speech.
…and? People also have freedom of association, and people can choose not to associate with an organization that employs someone with morally awful beliefs - especially when they make those beliefs very public.
Apparently, Stallman is a net positive for them, so they keep him.
Doesn’t mean that they in any way endorse pedophilia.
And the freedom of association also doesn’t mean that a bunch of enraged people online have the freedom to decide whom they associate with.
And apparently, in the USA there is a whole party devoted to child marriage and other ways to have sex with minors. That might be the better point to start, because they actually have a say regarding laws on that matter.
And apparently, in the USA there is a whole party devoted to child marriage and other ways to have sex with minors. That might be the better point to start, because they actually have a say regarding laws on that matter.
i’m not sure why we’re acting as if condemning Richard Stallman and the Republican Party for their equally bad takes in this sphere are mutually exclusive of each other.
There is this tendency to put people into either the good or bad box and that is something we all need to work on.
In light of his position with the FSF, it is unwise for him to say controversial things unrelated to this role simply because people are just waiting to make hay.
However calling someone bad or evil just because you disagree with them is really nuts. Ironic this forum is suppose to be accepting of differences and Stalmann is certainly different.
I totally disagree with Stallman’s views and personally I do find them pretty worrying.
But I also disagree with the concept that employers should be the executive of the court of public opinion.
We have real courts and real police, we don’t need to invent a secondary one where people lose their jobs due to shitstorms.
If you think he did something illegal, report him to the police or sue him. If not, then this is freedom of speech. Even though he uses the freedom to voice a pretty crappy opinion.
I mean, if everyone who said something that lots of people disagree with, I guess we would all be unemployed now.
I disagree. Things you say have consequences. The things you say actively reflect on your employer and future employers. You can try to deny it all you want but that’s the fact. I for one look poorly on the FSF for reinstating Stallman and I don’t think the FSF is a body of decision-makers that are capable of making the right choice. That’s kind of a major part of the FSF.
why?
Imagine a interview where employer tries to know every aspect of your personality and ideas, before hiring you.
Seems quite impossible.
For a celebrity like Stallman seems easy. But imagine checking the background of a random candidate just to see if she posted something bad years ago. And rejecting her application because of a post defendig the wrong ideas.
I agree we already have courts and police. If he did something illegal, there’s a course of action there.
For a random, non-public-facing employee, sure. But Stallman is the founder, and has always been the face and the voice of the FSF. He’s their mascot, their evangelist. He’s the one people see and think of when they think of the FSF. If he’s out here spouting extremely problematic views, and the FSF continues to employ him, then it looks like the organization as a whole is supporting those views.
I’m pretty sure that most people are mature enough to differentiate between an organization that makes software and nothing at all to do with kids and/or sexuality and that old wierdo’s personal views.
We live in a world where huge corporations with a revenue higher than the GDP of many countries routinely exploit child labour and work their workers to death or suicide, burning whole countries and pushing climate change while at it. And yet we collectively shrug and still buy Nestle, Apple, Samsung or H&M.
A shitstorm towards such a niche and unknown organisation as the FSF really doesn’t matter. We all know the Stallman and the FSF, because we are into computers, software and/or open source. But ask any random person on the street, thew wouldn’t know who Stallman or the FSF is if you told them that it’s not Android but actually Chrome/Android SDK/Dalvik/Toybox/Linux that runs on their phone.
That’s not how PR works.
This is just whataboutism.
So just because the FSF is a niche org, we should just ignore the problematic public statements by it’s founder and the person who’s always been at the forefront of their PR?
Tbh, this just sounds like free speech absolutism apologia. Yes, people can say whatever they want. But they are not free from consequences. I want nothing to do with an org that would have Stallman as a part of it. I don’t want to be associated with anyone who would. If you continue supporting an org that supports someone like Stallman, then both you and the org approve of the things he’s saying. Period. Your words mean nothing. Your actions speak for themselves.
Your actions do nothing. You complain on the internet about some guy that said something you don’t like. Nobody from FSF is gonna read it. And neither will Stallman or anyone that matters.
I don’t see you boycotting software related to FSF. And even if you do, it doesn’t even matter, since the overwhelming majority of FOSS users never donate any money at all.
You are no customer of the FSF, you just enjoy their stuff for free.
So your actions amount to angry screaming into a box.
Doesn’t the phrase “wrong ideas” worry you a bit? I don’t agree with everything Stallman says, but I think he has a right to say it, just the same as others have the right to say they don’t like it and think he’s a horrible pig or whatever. This is, of course, very different from acting on beliefs like his, which could certainly end up being harmful.
But when we as a society get to the point where we say an idea is wrong, it provokes the individual to act on the idea rather than talk about it. That’s why freedom of speech is so important. Let the idea air and argue with it in a civilised way, and these things will sort themselves out.
You’re right.
I used the phrase “wrong ideas” precisely to evoke that sentiment. Stallman’s ideas may be “wrong” for us, for good reasons. But that doesn’t make them objectively wrong. And he doesn’t seem to cross any legal boundary using his blog to defend some ideas we don’t like.
And neither should we mix the work of FSF with Stallman’s weird blog posts.
…and? People also have freedom of association, and people can choose not to associate with an organization that employs someone with morally awful beliefs - especially when they make those beliefs very public.
Apparently, Stallman is a net positive for them, so they keep him.
Doesn’t mean that they in any way endorse pedophilia.
And the freedom of association also doesn’t mean that a bunch of enraged people online have the freedom to decide whom they associate with.
And apparently, in the USA there is a whole party devoted to child marriage and other ways to have sex with minors. That might be the better point to start, because they actually have a say regarding laws on that matter.
i’m not sure why we’re acting as if condemning Richard Stallman and the Republican Party for their equally bad takes in this sphere are mutually exclusive of each other.
Freedom of speech is freedom of suppression from the government not freedom of social consequences.
Fuck him and not hiring assholes is praxis. A shitty person isnt isolated from being shitty when they are doing the one thing they are good at.
You can find non shitty people who are good at the same thing and keep the community clean from shitbags.
Our communities dont need terrible people even if they do good work.
There is this tendency to put people into either the good or bad box and that is something we all need to work on.
In light of his position with the FSF, it is unwise for him to say controversial things unrelated to this role simply because people are just waiting to make hay.
However calling someone bad or evil just because you disagree with them is really nuts. Ironic this forum is suppose to be accepting of differences and Stalmann is certainly different.