TheTechnician27

But how? The evidence is right there.

Bleak but interesting interpretation of Antarctica circa 2065.

I clarified this a bit in a follow-up comment, but my first comment was simplifying for the sake of countering:

[it’s not in the public domain] because the actual human work that went into creating it was done by the owner of the AI Model and whatever they trained on.

Their claim that the copyright for AI-generated works belongs to the model creator and the authors of the training material – and is never in the public domain – is patent, easily disprovable nonsense.

Yes, I understand it’s more nuanced than what I said. No, it’s not nuanced in their favor. No, I’m not diving into that with a pathological liar (see their other comments) when it’s immaterial to my rebuttal of their bullshit claim. I guess you just didn’t read the claim I was addressing?

Oh, sorry, I said that totally wrong: I meant that I really appreciate your first comment and that it’s not worth your time to reply to their bad-faith follow-up comment.

The answer is that it’s messy and that I’m not qualified to say where the line is (nor, I think, is anyone yet). The generated parts are not copyrightable, but you can still have a valid copyright by bringing together things that aren’t individually copyrightable. For example, if I make a manga where Snow White fights Steamboat Willie, I’ve taken two public domain elements and used them to create a copyrightable work.

So it’s not like the usage of AI inherently makes a project uncopyrightable unless the entire thing or most of it was just spat out of a machine. Where’s the line on this? Nobody (definitely not me, but probably nobody) really knows.

As for courts ever finding out, how this affects trade secret policy… Dunno? I’m sure a Microsoft employee couldn’t release it publicly, because as you said, it’d probably violate an NDA. If there were some civil case, the source may come out during discovery and could maybe be analysed programmatically or by an expert. You would probably subpoena the employee(s) who wrote the software and ask them to testify. This is just spitballing, though, over something that’s probably inconsequential, because the end product is prooooobably still copyrightable.

This kind of reminds me of the blurry line we have in FOSS, where everyone retains the copyright to their individual work. But if push comes to shove, how much does there need to be for it to be copyrightable? Where does it stop being a boilerplate for loop and start being creative expression?

Just as a sanity check: the person you’re responding to is a serial troll and what I can only describe as intellectually dishonest at best or a pathological liar at worst. They make up whatever they want and will never concede that the fucking nonsense they just dreamed up five seconds ago based on nothing is wrong in the face of conclusive proof otherwise.

You shouldn’t waste your time responding to this cretin.

Removed by mod

You’re just making shit up. The US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit has affirmed that AI-generated work is in the public domain. Put up or shut up.

Edit: Additionally, the US Copyright Office writes:

As the agency overseeing the copyright registration system, the [Copyright] Office has extensive experience in evaluating works submitted for registration that contain human authorship combined with uncopyrightable material, including material generated by or with the assistance of technology.

A Data breach?

Good thing it’s pretty easy to break windows.

When you die using the abacus, you die in real life.

Reject operating system.

Return to abacus.

Linux really doesn’t get bragging rights for “install[ing] old applications”. Linux ironically has been somewhat better for me than Windows for running older Windows applications thanks to WINE, but when it comes to installing old Linux applications, even when I wasn’t on a rolling release distro, it’s been a total crapshoot.

If, for example, there’s a native Linux game that hasn’t been updated in a few years, my experience buying it has generally been hoping the Linux version works, it doesn’t, and I’m stuck running it through WINE.

PCSX2 1.6.0, which used wxWidgets, released May 2020, and even five years after that, opening it on Linux shows you a frozen, unusable window that you have to manually kill. (citing PCSX2 because it’s a use case of mine as a contributor.) IIIRC, on Windows, you can straight-up go back to versions from like 2010 and still have them work.

Does ChatGPT apparently need to be brought up in literally every conversation about schizophrenic people now regardless of direct relevance?

Anyway, if you’re interested diving deeper, Fredrik Knudsen (Down the Rabbit Hole) made a great video on Davis and TempleOS back in 2018.

I just alias ls -lah to lsl.

Technically the numerical code still gives you a precise search key to find other people discussing the same issue.

… You know, as would be useful for a serious operating system where online support doesn’t mean trawling the bowels of Reddit praying somebody’s had the same issue and found a reproducible solution.

I mean use of the CLI on Linux generally. I used “terminal” vaguely because the original comment used it vaguely. “Down pat” is to say that I’m perfectly comfortable with it, namely that the course taught me:

• How to execute programs from the shell (and interrupt execution/kill processes).
• How to navigate and alter the filesystem, search for files and their contents, etc.
• How to install, remove, and configure software.
• How to set aliases.
• How to write shell scripts.
• How to edit files (although 99% of the time this is useless; I’ll just use something like Kate instead).
• How to parse and interpret program output.
• How to read man pages.
• Generally how to do anything I couldn’t/wouldn’t prefer to do from a GUI instead.

I use the shell vastly more than 99.99% of people and haven’t had a problem with or changed how I interact with it since that course; that to me is “down pat” for the terminal itself. I don’t care if I don’t know every application and flag ever made, because that’s not the point – like knowing how to use a GUI doesn’t mean you’ve memorized all GUI software, just that you know how to interpret the design language of and successfully use new GUI software. If I need to do something my current tools can’t, I can just search for the right program and use the man page to quickly write a command.

Meanwhile, with something like LibreOffice Calc, which I understand is much less feature-rich than the industry standard Excel, I don’t just learn about new functions like CORREL(), akin to what I said before about learning new CLI applications; I fundamentally learn how to create and edit spreadsheets more quickly. In Impress, I still learn how to make presentations more appealing, more readable, etc. Basically things that aren’t just rote memorization of gadgets that I could look up at any time. That’s what sets it apart to me – the fact that anything I don’t already know about the Linux terminal is present in readily available reference material and better off not memorized.

Well yeah, because I did. What else is there? I knew how to do everything I would ever need to do in the Linux command line. Anything I need to do beyond fundamental interactions, what else do I need to know besides how to 1) find a relevant CLI application and 2) read the man page to write a command? I even knew how to write basic shell scripts, which I would argue goes beyond “using the command line” and strays into “using a scripting language”. After that course, I never struggled with the Linux CLI because it taught me how to reason about it; is there a problem with that statement?

Is the timeframe and the setting the problem? Because I’m talking about going from never having used Linux or a CLI to being fluent with both, and the class was still a blowoff.

I know you already pointed out your sample is heavily biased, but to reiterate: macOS users you know predominantly from computer science and adjacent engineering fields are a very skewed sample. You can say that sprinkling terminal usage into a middle school computer literacy class is worthwhile, and I might even agree. But to treat it as anything more than something used by enthusiasts, programmers, IT professionals, scientists (on a very basic level that can be learned in 10 minutes), teenagers trying to look badass, and the one-in-a-million frustrated “normie” user who falls into it through some troubleshooting/game modding/etc. tutorial simply isn’t realistic.

Regarding ping: what good is it going to do a normal user who doesn’t understand basic networking? It can rarely tell me basic useful information, like that my DNS is fucked up (can’t get to websites but can ping). For normal users it’ll just tell them the Internet isn’t working, which they probably already figured out, but how do they resolve it? Pictured: a normal user who can use ping figuring out their Internet isn’t working. To make something like ping meaningfully useful, you need to teach them basic Layer 3 concepts too, which is fine, but that’s not a terminal skill – that’s networking skills with a trivial terminal command stapled on.

Anyone can learn to use an office suite on their own in very little time

Okay, should I say the same about a terminal then? I took a single-semester Linux course and had the terminal down pat. Meanwhile, I grew up learning how to use an office suite day in and day out in K–12 and still find new ways to improve my workflow in one.

so there’s no reason to teach it

Besides the fact that it’s a cornerstore of modern society that any white-collar professional will routinely have to work with, sure. (If you want to pull the “we shouldn’t be turning our kids into workers” card for why teaching them basic job skills is bad, things like word processing and spreadsheets are/can be very useful outside of industry too.)

Being able to use the command line is a valuable skill that makes you a way better computer user no matter what you’re doing

Okay, like… kind of? It gives you a better mindset, but in terms of a specific application, unless you’re in a niche part of industry or have niche interests, you will never in your life need to touch the terminal at this point. You will be just fine. Even as a power user, there are few problems normal users would face where I look at the terminal and see a shortcut to something that would be tedious in the GUI – and fuck knows most people use their desktop OS less than I do if they even have one anymore.

and it’s one that a lot of people are missing these days.

Because as noted, no major OS except desktop Linux makes you interact with the terminal in any meaningful way – and even desktop Linux is changing that because designers understand that, while the terminal is a godsend for power users, everyday users have no compelling reason to deal with it.

I don’t think you can really say you know how to use a computer if you can only use it in the very specific ways someone happens to have made a gui for

This is elitist bullshit that isn’t reflected in the real world. It’s not 1992 anymore. If people can efficiently complete the workflows they need via a GUI and never touch the terminal, then good for them; they know how to use a computer. This comment is so profoundly out-of-touch with how most actual humans live their lives that I feel like I’ve tripped and fallen into another reality.