I always figure it out, but Linux is not user friendly. The last issue I had was trying to get my vpn to work. It took me a few minutes to realize my vpn provider doesn’t support a gui on there.
This is the issue with Linux. It needs better support and adaptation. If it got that focus from third parties, I’d gladly make it my daily driver.
Here’s to hoping the attempts from companies like steam are only the beginning of a new thriving trend!
I have about as many tech issues with Windows as with Linux – It comes with me enjoying tinkering as a hobby I think?
BUT, and this is important, when shit breaks on Linux, there is always output on the terminal, or a log file, or something else you can check, and even when I don’t know what to do about it, a simple copypaste of the error on internet search usually gets me some answers.
When shit breaks on Windows? HOLY FUCKING SHIT. It just sorta dies and leaves you in the dark with nothing to go on for troubleshooting. Windows wants to make computers into magic boxes that “just werk”, but it never really gets there, and instead what you get is something that breaks just as often, but is a lot more opaque.
That BSOD with an emoticon lives rent-free in my head. Like who the fuck thought it was a good idea?
Also, even when you actually get an error message (which you probably had to dig through the awful mess that is the event viewer… Seriously, the only update they’ve made to it in the last twenty years was to split a bunch of things into a ton of individual logs that are more than painful to dig through), it’s cryptic (if it tells you anything at all) and pasting it into search gives you nothing relevant, and quoting it gives you nothing at all (even the part that’s obviously the generic part of the error), or if it does, it’s a couple hits with people asking for help and either getting no replies, unhelpful replies that misunderstand the issue, or tells them they’re asking in the wrong Microsoft support forum
Like… Come on, Microsoft. You clearly coded this error in the operating system. Put at least one page in documents online with at least something useful about it…
The few times I had to use the Windows Event Viewer I left having learned - Uh - Nothing except a newfound hatred for Microsoft. It’s weird to navigate, and the logs are close to useless.
I don’t feel very supported by their killing off CentOS and cutting promised support down from many years to the end of the year rather suddenly… Forgive me if I don’t trust them with much of anything after that
I don’t feel very supported by their killing off CentOS and cutting promised support down from many years to the end of the year rather suddenly… Forgive me if I don’t trust them with much of anything after that
Fair enough. But you’re speaking about policy and politics, I’m speaking about day-to-day hardware and software support/compatibility and how well it works with a wide range of hardware. I’m speaking about the OS itself; it just works with for me, without any hassles.
They literally cut promised support pulling the rug out from under many people and businesses that put their trust in that support. Not sure how that doesn’t count as “day to day software support”. Being able to trust that their word will be honored and I’ll not be forced to scramble to replace their os is kind of important and losing that trust understandably costs that trust pretty much across the board, at least for me
It shouldn’t be though. A command line interface is not user friendly for entry-level users, and until Linux UX designers realise this, Linux will never gain a greater market share. And we have seen this with Ubuntu, Mint, and other “user friendly” distros gaining popularity. I’m not saying that we should necessarily aim for broad-scale adoption of Linux as an end in itself, but more users means more support for Linux which means a better experience for all.
its only user unfriendly if youre used to having a gui for everything like windows and mac users in all reallity the real issue comes from children not being taught how to use computers growing up and instead relying on shitty non foss bloatware like windows
But that is the reality of most users today. They expect to have a GUI because it gives them the options right there, rather than having to go and learn what commands this particular system accepts. If you don’t cater to those users, like my parents, my friends, my grandparents, my teachers, and basically everyone I know who isn’t a computer nerd, and then expect them to “come to their senses” you will be very disappointed. Good design meets users where they’re at, it doesn’t expect them to “educate themselves.”
right but thats not an os issue thats a societal issue you wouldnt expect someone using a car not to understand how to swap oil or replace windshield fluid right?
If Linux wants to ever have adoption outside tech people then it can’t be. If a normide has to open up a terminal then that’s already one less Linux user.
I have used Linux for my main PC for a very long time but I have also worked in tech support and your average user will never ever use an OS where using the terminal is mandatory.
I my opinion there should be some hobbyist distros where the terminal is your daily experience like Arch or Gentoo but the main focus should be accessibility for the average user if adoptability is a goal.
If you don’t like using the Terminal use Mint, but even this one require some basics terminal skills that everybody could learn fast. Linux is made this way.
Oh, there are tons of distros where you don’t need to use the terminal for anything, even Manjaro, an arch based distro, doesn’t need you to ever open the terminal. I was just saying that if adoption is the goal then using the terminal can’t be a requirement for a normal user experience.
What I mean is that using the terminal isn’t mandatory in Manjaro while Arch and Arch based distros all require it. So for that it’s an excellent example.
As for stability it’s a bit more stable than Arch itself from my experience but I still has issues. The most stable distro I have used was Pop OS, I didn’t have a single issue there for like 3 years straight, I only switched because of a hardware change and Pop OS’s Mesa version was unstable on the new hardware.
My central point is still that you will never in a million years get the average computer user to use a terminal.
If more casual PC users got on to it, i wouldn’t call it a daily experience. Yeah you need to use it some times but once everyone is set, you dont really need to mess with it
I switched to Mint a few months ago and to be fair I have only messed with it a couple of times mainly just after the initial installation
Lol, I relate with this a lot.
I always figure it out, but Linux is not user friendly. The last issue I had was trying to get my vpn to work. It took me a few minutes to realize my vpn provider doesn’t support a gui on there.
This is the issue with Linux. It needs better support and adaptation. If it got that focus from third parties, I’d gladly make it my daily driver.
Here’s to hoping the attempts from companies like steam are only the beginning of a new thriving trend!
On my end, like –
I have about as many tech issues with Windows as with Linux – It comes with me enjoying tinkering as a hobby I think?
BUT, and this is important, when shit breaks on Linux, there is always output on the terminal, or a log file, or something else you can check, and even when I don’t know what to do about it, a simple copypaste of the error on internet search usually gets me some answers.
When shit breaks on Windows? HOLY FUCKING SHIT. It just sorta dies and leaves you in the dark with nothing to go on for troubleshooting. Windows wants to make computers into magic boxes that “just werk”, but it never really gets there, and instead what you get is something that breaks just as often, but is a lot more opaque.
That BSOD with an emoticon lives rent-free in my head. Like who the fuck thought it was a good idea?
Also, even when you actually get an error message (which you probably had to dig through the awful mess that is the event viewer… Seriously, the only update they’ve made to it in the last twenty years was to split a bunch of things into a ton of individual logs that are more than painful to dig through), it’s cryptic (if it tells you anything at all) and pasting it into search gives you nothing relevant, and quoting it gives you nothing at all (even the part that’s obviously the generic part of the error), or if it does, it’s a couple hits with people asking for help and either getting no replies, unhelpful replies that misunderstand the issue, or tells them they’re asking in the wrong Microsoft support forum
Like… Come on, Microsoft. You clearly coded this error in the operating system. Put at least one page in documents online with at least something useful about it…
The few times I had to use the Windows Event Viewer I left having learned - Uh - Nothing except a newfound hatred for Microsoft. It’s weird to navigate, and the logs are close to useless.
Application terminated due to internal error
I point you towards Fedora. Its indirectly backed by IBM.
From the article…
For me, being backed by IBM isn’t exactly a selling point… Not as bad as backed by Oracle, mind you
Granted, corporate shenanigans are never fun to deal with. But say what you may, they know how to support what they sell, hardware and software.
I don’t feel very supported by their killing off CentOS and cutting promised support down from many years to the end of the year rather suddenly… Forgive me if I don’t trust them with much of anything after that
Fair enough. But you’re speaking about policy and politics, I’m speaking about day-to-day hardware and software support/compatibility and how well it works with a wide range of hardware. I’m speaking about the OS itself; it just works with for me, without any hassles.
They literally cut promised support pulling the rug out from under many people and businesses that put their trust in that support. Not sure how that doesn’t count as “day to day software support”. Being able to trust that their word will be honored and I’ll not be forced to scramble to replace their os is kind of important and losing that trust understandably costs that trust pretty much across the board, at least for me
The terminal is not an accessory like on Windows, it’s apart of the daily Linux experience
It shouldn’t be though. A command line interface is not user friendly for entry-level users, and until Linux UX designers realise this, Linux will never gain a greater market share. And we have seen this with Ubuntu, Mint, and other “user friendly” distros gaining popularity. I’m not saying that we should necessarily aim for broad-scale adoption of Linux as an end in itself, but more users means more support for Linux which means a better experience for all.
Linux was never meant to be “user-friendly”, Windows and Linux are 2 differents things, but i know this fact is hard to accept tho.
its only user unfriendly if youre used to having a gui for everything like windows and mac users in all reallity the real issue comes from children not being taught how to use computers growing up and instead relying on shitty non foss bloatware like windows
But that is the reality of most users today. They expect to have a GUI because it gives them the options right there, rather than having to go and learn what commands this particular system accepts. If you don’t cater to those users, like my parents, my friends, my grandparents, my teachers, and basically everyone I know who isn’t a computer nerd, and then expect them to “come to their senses” you will be very disappointed. Good design meets users where they’re at, it doesn’t expect them to “educate themselves.”
right but thats not an os issue thats a societal issue you wouldnt expect someone using a car not to understand how to swap oil or replace windshield fluid right?
So user unfriendly for literally every regular user.
That is the definition of not being user friendly.
nah only for ones with incompetent parents
If Linux wants to ever have adoption outside tech people then it can’t be. If a normide has to open up a terminal then that’s already one less Linux user.
I have used Linux for my main PC for a very long time but I have also worked in tech support and your average user will never ever use an OS where using the terminal is mandatory.
I my opinion there should be some hobbyist distros where the terminal is your daily experience like Arch or Gentoo but the main focus should be accessibility for the average user if adoptability is a goal.
If you don’t like using the Terminal use Mint, but even this one require some basics terminal skills that everybody could learn fast. Linux is made this way.
Oh, there are tons of distros where you don’t need to use the terminal for anything, even Manjaro, an arch based distro, doesn’t need you to ever open the terminal. I was just saying that if adoption is the goal then using the terminal can’t be a requirement for a normal user experience.
Wrong example, Manjaro is probably the less stables distro i’ve tried, and thoses issues seems to be common when you look at the forum
What I mean is that using the terminal isn’t mandatory in Manjaro while Arch and Arch based distros all require it. So for that it’s an excellent example.
As for stability it’s a bit more stable than Arch itself from my experience but I still has issues. The most stable distro I have used was Pop OS, I didn’t have a single issue there for like 3 years straight, I only switched because of a hardware change and Pop OS’s Mesa version was unstable on the new hardware.
My central point is still that you will never in a million years get the average computer user to use a terminal.
We used to back in the 20th century, when computer didn’t had GUI
No, we didn’t. Average computer users didn’t exist then, only tech people.
If more casual PC users got on to it, i wouldn’t call it a daily experience. Yeah you need to use it some times but once everyone is set, you dont really need to mess with it
I switched to Mint a few months ago and to be fair I have only messed with it a couple of times mainly just after the initial installation