I want to selfhost a messaging service for my family. It should be secure and have voice calling option, ideally. Thank you.
I’m on Signal (obviously not self hosted) and even if I really wanted to move to another platform be it self hosted or yet another privacy focussed one, I can’t ask my friends and family to move to another platform again. I already asked them to move away from WhatsApp, can’t do it again…
💯 this. It took me several years to get most of my friends, co-workers and family to Signal…
This is what I told most of my friend when they asked me to move to signal. Is is going to be a very shitty company managed by a shitty egocentric person and you are going to regret. But you will make people move and they won’t do it again and won’t understand the reasons
From my experience (with Dendrite, not synapse, so keep that in mind), bridges create “fake” users to replicate your contacts on these platform as matrix users, and they are visible on the whole instance by all their users (but you might not be able to talk to them). Also, in puppeted mode (which is what you want to “replace” your app with matrix), only a single user can use the bridge at a time, so the other users cannot use it.
This is true but if you’re self-hosting it’s not that much bother to add additional copies of a bridge for other users (granted, it’s not ideal).
Bridges were not that easy to manage in my case (regarding process management, and ease of config deployment/reproductibility). It was on OpenBSD though, so your mileage may vary. And still, it leaks all of your contact informations to the other users of the server (like their phone number eventually), so definitely not suited for public instances.
Leaks contact information to the other users? Can you elaborate on that? I haven’t heard anything like that
That’s from my own experience. I had a self-hosted matrix server running with Dendrite, and the mautrix-whatsapp bridge running. The bridge was running in puppeted mode, so upon synchronizing contacts, the bridge created “fake” users on the matrix server, one for each of my whatsapp contacts. The matrix username of these contacts is (by default)
whatsapp_<phone_number>:domain.tld. And these users are visible (at least) by other users on the same server. It was my own instance and I was the sole user so I didn’t really care. But when a friend of mine wanted to try matrix, I created an account for him on the server, and when he joined, he could see all the fake whatsapp/telegram/discord users created by the bridge on the server. And as the default username includes the phone number, he basically had access to my whole phone contact list in real time.Very interesting.
https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/8969 This may be of interest- it’s basically the same thing. Seems that before that patch was merged, bridge-created puppet contacts would show up in searches.
Of course that’s for Synapse not Dendrite. So it sounds like Dendrite never applied that same functionality.
I host my own matrix instance for my wife, a few friends and I. It has worked great for us. They can either use a web app, or an app on their phone.
Hey , do you have a guide on how to host my own matrix server?
I used the official docker image: https://hub.docker.com/r/matrixdotorg/synapse/
My compose file looks like this: https://pastebin.com/3JYzAPr2
Pretty sure I just followed the instructions there.
how have you secured your server when opening your network to the outside?
I’m using a cloudflare tunnel for it. I also have crowdsec installed, only allow ssh keys and only from my IP (I have a static from my ISP), and no ports open other than the ones needed.
Matrix.
Matrix (synapse server) probably fits the bill.
Just for a family and friends I’d go for xmpp. Matrix is still an enormous greavy piece of software, hard to self host if you don’t want to pay for a gigantic server just for it. Also the UI is more like gamer/company chat (discord, slack…), what may not be what your family expect, coming from whatsapp, telegram, or plain sms. In the contrary xmpp is very light and nowadays a lot of tutorial exists on how to configure it, even with voice/video. Plus mobile apps like conversation match the habbits of other messengers.
I like Matrix (I mostly use it with my sister) though XMPP might be a good option too if it’s just for family.
Did you checkout matrix/element?
We use Matrix (Synapse) and it works extremely well. I just wish I could get a STUN/TURN server working…
My family has been using Synapse since before Covid hit, including TURN server (coturn) for audio and video calls. No complaints about the UI so far, except for Element on iPhone reportedly “freezing” for a few moments when sending messages - and that was over a year ago.
What problems do you have getting TURN to work?
I tried setting up coturn with docker but I can’t remember offhand what I had issues with. I am running a reverse proxy (Traefik) with wildcard certs. I should dig into it again. Do you happen to have any pointers or any good guides I could try following?
If you’re already using Nextcloud, it has a chat w/ video chat as well.
Matrix / Synapse / Element.io is also pretty cool. The UX might not be on par with what some family expects though. I don’t know if voice/video chat is built-in yet or not, but it was at least an option before.
Voice / video requires a separate TURN server, IIRC.
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Don’t listen to all the Matrix fanboys here 😅 It’s no fun having to manage the massive server application and the mobile apps pretty much suck.
I would go for https://snikket.org/ which is a lightweight all in one solution based on XMPP specifically designed for what you want.
Massive server application? Running on a PI 3? If you don’t want to federate with massive servers it’s super lightweight!
Matrix works, but it’s way harder and more expensive to selfhost than for example XMPP, which can be hosted even on cheapest VPS or first RPi. I would definitely take the cost and “how hard is it to maintain in the long run” into consideration.
Mattermost also works and is pretty easy to selfhost, but it doesn’t have federation.
Another option is always an email with delta.chat - I don’t think it offers voice calling, but email is one of the most basic services one can host, and many automated solutions to help with that exist.
The problem of XMPP is not hosting it, it’s the clients. Give me one easy-to-use guide to have
- e2ee text messaging
- groups
- audio/video calling
working equally well on desktop, Android and iOS, and I will gladly drop my matrix server.
Why? Existing platforms, especially the plain cell network, are going to be far more compatible and reliable.
Because this is SelfHosted and hosting services yourself is cool?
Some people have very legitimate reasons to want a secure private communication platform, and others are just enthusiastic nerds who do it for fun.
Cellphone network calls / texts aint secure at all. If you want to communicate in a secure way you need to use another seevice/app.
Many stated matriy as selfhostable service and i totally agree. Signal/Threema are also good options If you dont want to selhost.
