Over time, Canonical will replace close to everything with Snaps. Ubuntu Remixes are not the solution. They just count towards Ubuntu’s installed base and validate Canonical.
that’s why i love that more and more debian based distros are emerging
How many votes in Debian councils does Canonical own these days? The systemd vs Upstart discussion and vote at Debian was so protracted because Canonical bought votes in Debian’s Technological Council.
I didn’t knew that, the canonical influence on debian can really become a problem down the line. I will also checkout more about what canonical did along the years
When I tried looking up current affiliations, I was either super clumsy in googling or potential conflicts of interests are simply not documented. https://www.debian.org/intro/organization.en.html lists the members but not who sponsors their work and googling each name individually is a bit too much for what’s only superficial curiosity on my part, so I’m honestly out of the loop who is being paid by Canonical these days.
This is what I fear as well. I’m still running Kubuntu, as I have been for years. Next time I build a system it may just be time for Debian Testing or sid. I’ve been messing with both on some Intel NUCs I have laying around.
I’d consider Arch too if you’re running ZFS on a client machine, there are like 5 kernel packages in the archzfs repo with ZFS baked in. I got tired of constantly rolling my own updated Debian packages for software a few years ago and made the jump to Arch and I’m really happy with it, the packaging and build system are a joy to work with compared to debs.
No disrespect intended to Debian here I just got tired of building so many packages to have updated software. EndeavourOS is a good place to start in the Arch ecosystem if you ever feel like checking it out. I run Proxmox on my server boxes as well.
I used to run arch back before the big /usr/lib migration.
I forgot what got me to change to debian but a buddy was talking up the rock hard stability and something dumb happened so I made the switch to debian.
I usually run it as a rolling release (need to point to the version type rather than the codename) in testing. More stable than arch but more recent than stable.
My big reason for wanting it built into a kernel from my source repo is then I don’t have to worry about some bullshit upgrade not actually updating the kernel module like it should have. Dealt with that a few too many times when using ZFS on debian.
I usually run it as a rolling release (need to point to the version type rather than the codename) in testing. More stable than arch but more recent than stable.
Yeah, this was me before I got tired of constantly building my own packages to have current versions of some software. I’ve been pretty content with Arch since I switched to it a few years ago, I still spend some time mucking with packages but nowhere near as much as before. My breaking point with Debian was a new Ryzen laptop a few years ago, I could either package my own kernel for it along with all of the platform software I needed or I could hop over to Arch and just build a patched kernel so I went for it.
My big reason for wanting it built into a kernel from my source repo is then I don’t have to worry about some bullshit upgrade not actually updating the kernel module like it should have. Dealt with that a few too many times when using ZFS on debian.
There is nothing more annoying than dkms failing to build your primary storage (or NIC) module after a kernel update because ✨reasons✨ - that’s a huge part of why I settled on Proxmox for my server boxes, no more unexpected ZFS breakage.
Check out the Proxmox kernel when you get a chance, you might be able to just pull packages from their repo and roll with Sid otherwise.
Dude if that’s the case I’m so stoked. I don’t hate Ubuntu but I think forced snaps are dumb and wrongbad. It’ll be a bit before I can commit to the project sadly. I’ve got a work trip, a proposal and some pinball repairs on the docket first.
Should probably get a new battery for that laptop too.
Ubuntu actually bakes it into the kernel for you. I prefer having it in the kernel after having to deal with failed kernel upgrades several times in a row.
Keep in mind, Ubuntu rolls it’s own kernel based on kernel.org release.
Pretty sure optional means optional to use as your FS but not optional on your kernel.
Good to know! I’ll double check my version, then again, I skipped the installer and did things the advanced mode for my install so I might get to skip that issue.
Out of tree still means not part of kernel.org upstream. You’re imagining a tighter ZFS integration than is actually there in Ubuntu simply because of misunderstanding used terminology.
What are you trying to say? They all use ZFS on Linux (today named OpenZFS). Gentoo and Ubuntu aren’t different in that regard. Ubuntu’s QA verifiably sucks, though.
The ZFS installer was removed from later non-LTS releases. AFAIK, even in the version with the ZFS installer, it wasn’t in the kernel, it was just including the pre-compiled non-DKMS driver module that matched the kernel version.
That’s inaccurate. I’m was running that kernel when it came out, just the kernel no extra modules or anything get added except the libraries and commanda for ZFS and zpool. I’m on a more recent one these days and it’s still the same set up.
I can’t say I care about it being an option in the installer, I’d rather run an advanced install because the installer’s ZFS set up was garbage, everything in one zpool, no branching no data encryption etc etc.
The current most popular distribution is MX Linux (based on Debian Stable), which I use. You certainly don’t have to, but I would say least start with a distro that respects you and adheres to FOSS standards…
Next time, Gort will install Debian and save himself the trouble
I wish I could have it as easy as Gort. I miss my debian but I want that ZFS built into my kernel.
There is so many distros that are just ubuntu without snaps, is just a matter of picking one of them
Over time, Canonical will replace close to everything with Snaps. Ubuntu Remixes are not the solution. They just count towards Ubuntu’s installed base and validate Canonical.
What do you have to change to make it not count towards their numbers?
Not access their repositories would be one thing because the only somewhat close approximation of installed base is through repository accesses.
Honestly i agree, that’s why i love that more and more debian based distros are emerging, lot of times from distros that used to be based on ubuntu
How many votes in Debian councils does Canonical own these days? The systemd vs Upstart discussion and vote at Debian was so protracted because Canonical bought votes in Debian’s Technological Council.
I didn’t knew that, the canonical influence on debian can really become a problem down the line. I will also checkout more about what canonical did along the years
systemd vs Upstart began almost exactly 10 years ago: https://www.phoronix.com/news/MTQ5NzQ
When I tried looking up current affiliations, I was either super clumsy in googling or potential conflicts of interests are simply not documented. https://www.debian.org/intro/organization.en.html lists the members but not who sponsors their work and googling each name individually is a bit too much for what’s only superficial curiosity on my part, so I’m honestly out of the loop who is being paid by Canonical these days.
Thank you, i’m going todive deeper on this when i have the time
This is what I fear as well. I’m still running Kubuntu, as I have been for years. Next time I build a system it may just be time for Debian Testing or sid. I’ve been messing with both on some Intel NUCs I have laying around.
Do you know if they use ubuntu’s kernel? That is my sticking point.
Most of them use, unless you pick something like pop os that has it’s own kernel packages it will use the default ubuntu kernel
can you name a few?
Pop os, linux mint, linux lite, etc.
The first 2 may do a lot pf changes to the base but that’s what make them better them ubuntu in my opinion
Check out the kernel packages from Proxmox, they build ZFS into a debian kernel.
Yo! Best advice I’ve gotten, thank you!
I’d consider Arch too if you’re running ZFS on a client machine, there are like 5 kernel packages
in the
archzfsrepo with ZFS baked in. I got tired of constantly rolling my own updated Debian packages for software a few years ago and made the jump to Arch and I’m really happy with it, the packaging and build system are a joy to work with compared to debs.No disrespect intended to Debian here I just got tired of building so many packages to have updated software. EndeavourOS is a good place to start in the Arch ecosystem if you ever feel like checking it out. I run Proxmox on my server boxes as well.
I used to run arch back before the big /usr/lib migration.
I forgot what got me to change to debian but a buddy was talking up the rock hard stability and something dumb happened so I made the switch to debian.
I usually run it as a rolling release (need to point to the version type rather than the codename) in testing. More stable than arch but more recent than stable.
My big reason for wanting it built into a kernel from my source repo is then I don’t have to worry about some bullshit upgrade not actually updating the kernel module like it should have. Dealt with that a few too many times when using ZFS on debian.
Yeah, this was me before I got tired of constantly building my own packages to have current versions of some software. I’ve been pretty content with Arch since I switched to it a few years ago, I still spend some time mucking with packages but nowhere near as much as before. My breaking point with Debian was a new Ryzen laptop a few years ago, I could either package my own kernel for it along with all of the platform software I needed or I could hop over to Arch and just build a patched kernel so I went for it.
There is nothing more annoying than dkms failing to build your primary storage (or NIC) module after a kernel update because ✨reasons✨ - that’s a huge part of why I settled on Proxmox for my server boxes, no more unexpected ZFS breakage.
Check out the Proxmox kernel when you get a chance, you might be able to just pull packages from their repo and roll with Sid otherwise.
Dude if that’s the case I’m so stoked. I don’t hate Ubuntu but I think forced snaps are dumb and wrongbad. It’ll be a bit before I can commit to the project sadly. I’ve got a work trip, a proposal and some pinball repairs on the docket first.
Should probably get a new battery for that laptop too.
You’re looking for Gentoo.
Unless I’m missing something, Gentoo uses out of tree kernel modules. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/ZFS#Installation
Ubuntu actually bakes it into the kernel for you. I prefer having it in the kernel after having to deal with failed kernel upgrades several times in a row.
Considering that installing ZFS is optional even in Ubuntu, that just cannot be true. Out of tree means that upstream kernel.org does not bundle ZFS.
Btw, Ubuntu 21.10 corrupted ZFS partitions. Their QA is shit.
Keep in mind, Ubuntu rolls it’s own kernel based on kernel.org release.
Pretty sure optional means optional to use as your FS but not optional on your kernel.
Good to know! I’ll double check my version, then again, I skipped the installer and did things the advanced mode for my install so I might get to skip that issue.
Out of tree still means not part of kernel.org upstream. You’re imagining a tighter ZFS integration than is actually there in Ubuntu simply because of misunderstanding used terminology.
https://didrocks.fr/2019/08/06/ubuntu-zfs-support-in-19.10-introduction/
What are you trying to say? They all use ZFS on Linux (today named OpenZFS). Gentoo and Ubuntu aren’t different in that regard. Ubuntu’s QA verifiably sucks, though.
I run Debian with ZFS the package is in the repo’s.
Well, you won’t have that much longer.
Oh? What’s going on?
The ZFS installer was removed from later non-LTS releases. AFAIK, even in the version with the ZFS installer, it wasn’t in the kernel, it was just including the pre-compiled non-DKMS driver module that matched the kernel version.
That’s inaccurate. I’m was running that kernel when it came out, just the kernel no extra modules or anything get added except the libraries and commanda for ZFS and zpool. I’m on a more recent one these days and it’s still the same set up.
I can’t say I care about it being an option in the installer, I’d rather run an advanced install because the installer’s ZFS set up was garbage, everything in one zpool, no branching no data encryption etc etc.
The current most popular distribution is MX Linux (based on Debian Stable), which I use. You certainly don’t have to, but I would say least start with a distro that respects you and adheres to FOSS standards…
Edit: context