Re-creation of someone else’s post because the original was removed and I found it funny when I first saw it
I’m really triggered by the idea that Linux makes running old software easy. The bane of my existence is finding an application that depends on libButts.5.1, but my distro ships with libButts.5.3, which isn’t backward compatible for some reason, and trying to install libButts.5.1 bricks the desktop environment for some reason.
I just searched for that lib, in an attempt to help you with the supposed problem. I won’t deny, you got me there.
And this is what is actually good about Linux. :)
Why is that good?
No time for actual facts, only circlejerking /s
Well this is linuxmemes
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Thanks for the suggestion. I can’t wait to try buttstuff in a safe environment later.
Appimage, Snap, Flatpak, Docker, Podman, Distrobox, Toolbox…
AppImage has definitely made my life a lot easier in several cases!
Those are fairly recent solutions
I mean not really, Appimage has been around since 2004, flatpak/docker for about a decade now. But at any rate I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?
I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?
it’s hard to run old applications on Linux
What does their age have to do with anything
I’m not sure if you’re taking the piss but since those solutions are so recent, you won’t find old applications packaged with those solutions.
They don’t need to be packaged at the time of creation anyway, they can be packaged right now. Distrobox makes this easy, like let’s say you need an application that only works on Ubuntu 18.04. It’s two commands:
distrobox create --image ubuntu:18.04 ubuntudistrobox enter ubuntu -- sudo apt-get install _package_Then to export the package to your desktop you can even do
distrobox enter ubuntu -- distrobox export --app _application_Boom, you have an Ubuntu 18.04 application on an OS of your choosing. You can theoretically do this with any distro, distrobox can use any OCI images from docker-hub, quay.io, or any registry of your choice.
I wouldn’t exactly call that easy, but compared to how it used to be, fair enough.
I’ll just leave this here: https://lemmy.world/post/2735721
can you not recompile the app to use the new lib?
Windows also doesn’t let you remove system apps.
Removed by mod
Try me 😂
You can totally remove them, but it’ll just reinstall them back, or worst case scenario, you’ll break a part of your system, because Windows is a giant monolith of decades of built-up stupidity
Tbf, every moderately old software product is a collection of built-up stupidity.
even the kernel linux?
Checkmate, atheists
I’m predominantly a Windows user. However I dual boot with Mint as I am trying to get away from Windows. It’s really not easy but I’m trying.
I gotta say though these types of posts make me cringe. I really don’t know why some Linux users put themselves on a pedestal all the time. You make these sorts of smug posts making out that Linux is perfect. I have never installed Linux and had it just work. There is always something that requires searching the web for a fix and firing up the terminal to start changing something in /etc/.
I get it. You’re proud of your technology. But vegans are proud they don’t eat animal products. We don’t need to keep selling it to the rest of the world.
I’ve found it easier to use KDE to switch from windows as it feels like a more complete ecosystem that I’m familiar with. And it is pretty great, until I install one bad graphics driver and then I’m stuck in a terminal only session until I can fix it. At least windows has safe mode.
Meanwhile KDE/Fedora gave me the most issues on both my laptop and desktop.
The UI drops to 1hz refresh rate for some reason.
My mouse cursor theme was causing issues with Firefox. My mouse would just disappear when using Firefox.
Konsole and Dolphin kept opening in a tiny window, where I had to expand it every time to see the text. No amount of saving preferences would fix it.
The logout button hard locked my PC. Only way to fix it was to reboot my PC with the power button.
Steam constantly locked up, even when trying to play games rated GOLD on Protondb.
Davinci resolve refused to launch. Kept giving me errors.
I then gave up. Most of the issues never got fixed, and the ones that I did manage to fix took HOURS of Googling. These are all such basic features/tasks that literally work out of the box on Windows/Mac.
What problems do you have most often? Can you come up with a description of a class of problems you have that would account for most of the time you spend troubleshooting?
Who provided the documentation you used to install a Linux operating system you had trouble with? I don’t recall having serious issues after installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux or even NixOS, and I certainly don’t recall having any issues of above-average importance that weren’t a direct result of my intentional actions (e.g. trying to permanently change what DNS servers would be used).
“I can’t build a steady userbase”
There is a difference between steady and small.
Actually… The Steam Deck runs on Valve’s custom Arch Linux. To say there is no steady userbase is simply not true.
Touché. I would like to counter that with “Not a desktop though” and end my turn with “wine required to use company software”
Between Microsoft’s open source Vulcan enhancements and Valve’s everything else enhancements both being contributed upstream, “Wine required” doesn’t have quite the same punch it used to.
Pours myself a shot for having to thank Microsoft
Weak punches are still punches
Tell that to your dreams
My dreams don’t hurt :(
that’s also not true because it could be used as a desktop all the same
It is very true. Nobody buys a steamdeck to be a desktop replacement. Nobody does work on a steamdeck. It might theoretically work, but most steamdeck owners game on it and thats it.
I dont think you’re right about that. Browse through the steam deck subreddit and community here and you’ll see plenty of posts of people using the steam deck for work and productivity as well as gaming. I myself use it both as a console and as a laptop more or less. Its a very nice portable Linux desktop
Damn
What a dishonest argument. They’re using a curated overlay for Linux that mostly hides the Linux part from them completely. The fact that there’s a “Desktop Mode” doesn’t change the fact that 99% of Steam Deck users aren’t in Desktop mode.
Edit: If someone bought a smart appliance with a screen whose software was Linux on the backend, we wouldn’t count people who bought that appliance (a refrigerator, for example) as “Linux users”. The Steam Deck is the same way for 95% of its users.
They’re using a curated overlay for Linux
This is commonly known as a “distro”. SteamOS is just particularly good at being user friendly for it’s fairly narrow use-case.
SteamOS is the distro. Big Picture/Steam Deck is an overlay for the Steam application and what the majority of Steam Deck users are using and experiencing. They’re not using it for day to day applications and browsing the internet.
I’d probably call Big Picture the Desktop environment in this case. Yes it’s a simplified linux experience, but it’s not not linux.
The point is that you could swap what OS it is in the background and it wouldn’t make a difference that it’s Linux. The Steam Deck could be running Windows with Big Picture on top of it and no one would be the wiser. It’s misleading to say that Steam Deck users are Linux users if they don’t even use any of the Linux environment.
But that’s true for anything. you could swap out the OS under gnome and most users wouldn’t notice either.
Linux: “my users spend half their time troubleshooting”
I’ve had hard time troubleshooting on Windows because everything is obfuscated behind so many layers. And there’s just things you can’t feasibly do. But it does seem to work well most of the time.
I am a Windows guy, but I occasionally have to work with Linux. I spend a lot of time googling weird problems with cryptic solutions. That’s my experience trying to do anything technical with Linux. I can’t really remember the last time I had a problem in windows, but that’s not to say windows is perfect. It’s taken a hit in usability recently, which is weird since they’ve had decades to refine things. I recently installed pop os as a dual boot and it’s been pretty great with the ability to play games. I haven’t really had to do anything technical and I find myself using it more than I thought.
At least most problems under Linux have solutions and if you are really desperate you have the option to fix it yourself in the source or pay someone to do it. Under windows, if microsoft doesn’t care about your problem, you either find a workaround or live with it.
Because of the ginormous community, every problem has a solution in Windows.
If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.
Windows has a hell of a lot more support than any Linux distribution does.
If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.
That’s not how this works. If it’s not a Microsoft-sancioned solution, it literally cannot be fixed no matter how much effort you put in. You need an API to work with Windows. If Microsoft does not provide you with an API, you can’t do it. And even if you find a way to hack together something, you have zero guarantee an update won’t just come along and fuck it. Linux distros are open source, you can change quite literally any thing about them. That is what that person was talking about.
the thing is, microsoft does provide stable, well-documented and backwards-compatible apis for just about anything imaginable, and even if that’s not enough, you can try interacting with the kernel directly
I can’t say I share this experience as I spend a lot more than half my time using Linux watching documentaries on youtube in a web browser. If you are obsessed with personalization I could see this happening, but I happen to prefer using default (as in “possible to consistently re-apply”) settings on most things.
Regardless, troubleshooting makes you better at resolving trouble that you didn’t bring about on your own, and life is defined by unexpected troubles. It is better to be antifragile than happy!
I guess you’re lucky (or much more tech-savvy than me). I tried to switch to linux once many years ago (pre-COVID, which is like ancient times now). It was horrible. Oh, I now need to learn about file systems and NTFS and ext3/4(?) - i guess i’ll try Linux on a separate, old hard drive. Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download. Great, people on forums are helpful but they’re asking me a bunch of gibberish. Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line, but then the GUI doesn’t work occasionally and now I have to figure out if it’s the GUI that broke or something else. And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.
Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download.
Unlike in Windows where you never need to download drivers. As executable binaries you have no chance of checking. Sometimes from very questionable sources. And actually you can be happy if it’s only a driver. Installing random 3rd party tools just to get basic functionality is a thing.
people on forums are helpful
Which also happens for Windows. But rarely. And if they really try… then there are still 10 different answers to a single problem and you have to test which one works for your specific version (no, chosing the most recent one sounds logical but is rarely the answer).
Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line
Which in what way is worse then editing random obscure values in the registry? Because it’s a window you type in. And in the worst case even the Windows help starts with poweshell nowadays, which is exactly the same.
And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.
That’s a solveable problem. Unlike in Windows where they put file permissions on top a file system not having them in a weird unintutive way. And don’t ever try to change the wrong permission as an administrator as that’s simply not allowed. After all you don’t own your Windows PC, MS just gratiously allows you to use it.
So, you see… it’s all a matter of perspective.
If I was in your situation, I would try installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux on a computer where you don’t care if the entire disk gets wiped occasionally, using a flash drive you also don’t care about getting wiped occasionally. They probably have sufficiently comprehensive installers and installation instructions for you to succeed in using one of them, and if you don’t care about the content of the disks you use you’ll be more willing to experiment with the installation process (even though it’s unlikely your computer will work worse due to trying to install a Linux distribution). If you use a computer that has become slower and less usable than you’d like you will probably be pleasantly surprised by the results!
Also, you can back up your product keys and prepare a Microsoft Windows installation disk if being able to go back to Windows 10 makes you more comfortable with experimenting.
Overall, Linux enhanced my ability to to get productive work done, and also the opportunity to experiment and learn more about how to use computers to solve problems. I think learning how to use a GNU operating system is a good long term investment, though if you still need to keep around at least one computer that runs Microsoft Windows to protect your income I won’t disparage you.
Trying to use proprietary drivers and NTFS on Linux is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. People work hard to make it work and maybe it does with a little effort but the proprietary model and Linux distros just don’t mesh well together. If you make it a point to purchase hardware that has open source drivers and use open source software (and as a consumer, you probably should anyway), everything does just work. Obviously this may not suit your use case and Linux may just not be for you.
NTFS is okay if you’re mounting a drive that you share with a Windows machine but don’t actually install Linux to an NTFS partition please. Most of the “beginner friendly” distros I don’t think even let you.
The key to customization is not going out of bounds. If you customize, do it the way it was intended to be customized, not by finding weird, hacky shit that works like some kind of digital Rube Goldberg machine. If you find yourself writing convoluted bash scripts, and dredging up plugins on GitHub with the last commit from 2012, you’re on a crash course with destiny.
Hey, how’d you see what I’ve done to my Android phone?
Cause this exactly describes what I do to it. Then I get weird conflicts. Lol. I do it to myself.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I have to use windows at work. I have to spend a lot more time trouble shooting there than on my bleeding edge rolling release linux at home.
That is because you perform more work on your work computer instead of browsing lemmy all day.
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That’s categorically untrue. As long as you stick with well supported, mainstream distributions, most things just work. Given the vast diversity of window managers, init systems, boot loaders, desktop environments, package managers, graphical interface systems, audio systems, and so on… it’s surprising how well things do just generally work in most cases.
Gee, I must have imagined writing a novel on a laptop running Linux, with nothing giving any trouble at all.
I guess my imagination is even better than I thought!
Sadly, that means that the second novel I’m halfway through must be imaginary too. A shame to have imagined that much imagining.
Seriously, that’s just this laptop, it doesn’t count the ones on desktop before that, also on Linux.
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And here we have a Windows power user that gave Linux a half-hearted attempt sometime in the last decade, never attempted to learn anything, and failed… so obviously Linux is broken. It surely isn’t his own ineptitude, it’s definitely Linux, it doesn’t matter that 90% of all web and cloud infrastructure runs on. It doesn’t matter tech illiterate people like my 80+ year old grandparents get by without any problems on it. It doesn’t matter it blows Windows out of the water in terms of customization, workflows, reliability, control, and privacy for advanced users. He couldn’t figure out whatever Windows thing he was trying in the first 2 hours he used it, so it obviously is broken.
I find it hilarious when Windows power users try Linux, realize that they are not actually the computer experts they see themselves as but merely Windows power users. They get salty about it and blame Linux for not being confined to their own limited idea on how an OS should work… you know, like Windows. Then make a bunch of bullshit assumptions and statements that are completely wrong to make themselves feel better about failing to understand an amazing OS.
Similarly, about 90% of the complaints I see linux users make about Windows are actually limitations in their understanding or are just outdated and no longer apply.
I know more about Windows than I do about Linux… I used it for decades. Windows lacks customization, and it has dogshit workflows. It sends telemetry data, and it advertises to you. Those are the reasons that I no longer consider Windows.
Least gatekeeping Linux user
I truly believe Linux is great for basic users, and also Linux is great for advanced users. The only people that have problems with it are insecure Windows power users that want to think they understand how a computer works, but really have no idea.
💀
Edit: 💀💀
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I can’t imagine being that desperate for validation. I know you’re a LTT bro that’s offended by my assessment, the only advice I have to offer… don’t be so insecure and fragile, learn from it.
That’s how it’s supposed to be! The only question is whether the brokenness has a documented method to neutralize it, and you could help with that by publicly posting about any issues you have.
Linux is smiling because he accidentally deleted the file system while trying to check how much space was free, but now he’s free from the hell that is modern computing.
Yeah, you can run old app on Linux, as long as you compile it manually while solving a shitton of dependency problems.
Still better than getting brickwalled by software.
And a Flatpak with an end-of-life FreeDesktop runtime from 2019 or something
2017+3 Mk.III
not just having a backed up schroot of the old OS to run with
schroot -c oldbuntu -u user /path/to/appOr a distrobox
I don’t have a printer.
I don’t like open ports.
Decides to remove CUPS.
“apt list -i *cups*”
There are like 7 CUPS packages and dependencies.
for each package “apt remove cups --simulate”
Get to package 6 and decide ‘Ok. No major issues, looks fine.’
For the first 6 packages “sudo apt remove CUPS”
This is easy and painless!
On 7th …
Removing cups-pk or some shit… Removing mint-common… Removing cinnamon-desktop…
Oh, fuck
I feel like I broke my network because I removed python once.
When I was new to Linux I broke EVERYTHING.
Often.
The more you break, the more you learn.
Nobody tells me I can’t modify this file.
Eg. I once accidentally chmodded the entire root directory. (Recursion incident)
Linux does not like when the root fs permissions are ALL changed.
I had no internet at the time. And no idea what timeshift was.
Thankfully, I had a library card.
Learned a lot about permissions that month.
(I enjoy doing things the hard way)
Did you manage to get your system working again? Iirc I did the same on Arch a few years ago and it wasn’t too bad to restore the system after looking at the permissions on a fresh install (maybe a container or vm, idr).
I tried. It was so long ago now I can’t even remember. It was xubuntu, though.
But, I’m pretty sure I had to take it down to the local shop and get a copy of the iso since I didn’t have a fresh install to compare. (This wasn’t the only time I absolutely borked my machine)
Nowadays, I backup everything. I image the partitions. I create a separate partition for home. And I know what to never touch.
Agreed, backups are important. Before switching to NixOS (or image based OS like Fedora Silverblue) I made use of automatic btrfs snapshots. This makes these kinds of screw-ups simple to revert.
I’d like to say an overly optimistic
chmod -Rdidn’t happen again but my old Nextcloud instance would like a word.Thanks for reminding to do my backups again. I’ve recently build a server with enough storage so I’ll probably setup restic or borg. That means I can bring my external backup HDD over to my family as an offline/offsite backup.
I did something very similar while I was drunkenly troubleshooting issues on an old laptop and I gave up as soon as I saw the desktop going I just closed the lid and reformatted the next day
For some reason the entire global economy depends on imagemagik working. Only Linus and the Illuminati know why.
Linux: I can’t install steam without breaking my system
Steam Deck: am I a joke to you?
Yes.
Maybe you and Linus can’t…
Meanwhile everyone can install Steam on Windows/Mac without issue.
Sounds like Linux is great…
laughs in flatpak
Unpopular opinion: flatpaks enable lazy developers to keep old versions of required Python dependencies working longer.
And that is bad?
If only there was a way to bundle it all together, like in some sort of pack…
Yes.
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I think they’re talking about that time PopOS messed up Steam packaging and it was broken and it just so happens Linus (the tech tip guy) was trying to install it then and he ended up running a command to rememedy the situation that totally broke his shit. It was pretty funny
laughs in Wine
The last character: I can make you spend an entire day trying to install some software or configuring something specific
Oh yeah, I never had to do this on windows!
Wait! That’s not correct.
Maybe I’m unique in this regard, but I can’t remember having any issues installing things on windows since Windows 7. Trying out Linux in college was fun and interesting, but I definitely spent more time futzing around with it to make it work the way that I want it to work.
I think more people would take the Linux community here seriously if people just acknowledged the flaws with Linux based OSes and focused on the actual benefits of Linux over windows. (Which are getting more and more enticing as Microsoft makes windows more annoying.)
I know what you mean and Linux can be the operating system with less issues as well. E.g. I never had printer issues with my system but have to troubleshoot others’ printers regularly.
If you only use Linux for browsing and light office work you probably never encounter problems. Even if you play games via steam and Proton there probably will never be something.
The same is true for Windows. If you only use it for a small subset of tasks (browsing, light office work or playing recent games) you will rarely encounter problems.
But if you try to do so without a Microsoft account or if you don’t want a bloated start menu, it starts to get tricky.
And don’t get me started on playing old games or getting some programming dependencies running. This can be hell.
I know the flaws of windows (I’ve used it up until last year and still have to use it at work) and I also know the limitations of Linux. They are both not perfect, but Linux is free and Windows becomes more and more shit (as you’ve said). And this is where I don’t understand all the people saying, that windows is easier. It really isn’t anymore. It was a few years ago though.
I imagine that most people think Windows is easier because the majority of people grew up using Windows machines in schools, workplaces, etc. I think it could have to do with the sense of familiarity there.
The other problem I think people have with Linux is that the fact that different distros confuses them. Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.
Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.
Or it’s the fact the community is so toxic?
Every computer, doesn’t matter brand or hardware, never works 100% out of the box on Linux. Doesn’t matter which distro.
You ask online, and people scream at you to run terminal commands or go back to Windows.
You run a terminal command that breaks your system, and people blame you for running random terminal commands…
You go back to Windows, and people say “Linux is so friendly, you don’t even have to touch the terminal anymore if you really don’t want to!”
Rinse and repeat.
😜
A key distinction is how many of those problems are specifically because of Windows. Is a Windows feature creating the problem?
The concept scares me quite a bit actually, having to fight my OS in addition to entire else I’m always trying to figure out.
Yeah I won’t say windows is better, I know Linux is superior. But windows is a mess with a reason, it works everywhere . But It can’t handle heavy operations , it’s bloated af … etc ir sucks for enterprise solutions. But for a personal computer or server simple apps, people don’t want to wait or struggle .
Yeah, Linux has a lot of good uses, it’s just not for everyone nor the average person. There’s no way the people who struggle with computer troubles could use Linux.
I think that’s sometimes forgotten in all the memes. The people who could actually use Linux are a fairly small subset of all Windows users.
99.9% of Windows software runs after you run the .exe
Which programs require so much troubleshooting for you?
I just spent 30+ minutes troubleshooting an MS office installer today that would just shut off after the splash screen, on a friend’s brand new laptop… But then again, I spent two hours trying to get my old Brother network scanner/printer on Manjaro a few weeks ago.
Or: I can only print intermittently at best.
I think it’s humorous how many people are getting offended at such a silly post
So many people here are butthurt because of a small meme that pokes fun at what 90% of end users experience.
Its not Linux’s fault they can’t take a joke about windows. And yet somehow we are the elitist snowflake gatekeepers, or whatever buzzword they wanna use today.
Linux users are like Vegans. No one likes them and they won’t stop bratting about being a Linux user.
I’m slowly going down the open source rabbit hole, but I have yet to fully go down the part where you preach about it like it’s a God. I hope I never get that far, as I also use Linux from time to time as well. I ain’t looking to be one of those annoying users who constantly brings it up if I can help it.
Talking about Linux is fine. Coming into any tech/tech support post, screaming that Linux is the answer, even if the person explains why they need Windows/Mac, is not.
It’s like the Christians that comment on a dying persons tiktok about how God knows best, and God will heal them lmao. Literally not helpful and extremely ignorant and rude.
The thing is that Unix will solve every problem, the only question is when. Year of the Linux desktop 2070?
I’m legitimately unsure if it’s appropriate to be running mission-critical systems on the Microsoft Windows platform nowadays, but transitioning will obviously take some time.
All three lines are incorrect, Amazing.
I’m on mac and I can’t install many intel apps I used to rely on
Linux users need something to make them feel superior using an OS with a tiny marketshare.
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On the plus side, even if you did need to update Linux, it’s not like you are running anything on it anyways.
I saw a post on Lemmy super recently how Tux Racer is literally better than any other game ever made, and how that’s the power of FOSS gaming. It was not satire.
Re-creation of someone else’s post because the original was removed and I found it funny when I first saw it
If the original was removed, there’s probably a reason.
This “meme” chooses the dumbest reasons Linux is better when there are so many other options than “updates” and “old app”
It’s yet another “Linux good, other OS bad” meme, which is by far my least favorite kind of Linux meme
The reason the original was removed can be found at https://www.kevinswildlife.com/modlog/1016 by searching for the user “Kaped”. Apparently it was because that user broke the rules regarding “No bigotry” and “Be respectful” on https://lemmy.ml/ and a mod wanted to “remove content”.
I doubt those reasons were actually related to the post this one copies, as it doesn’t seem bigoted, and probably isn’t much less respectful than other !linuxmemes@lemmy.world content.
Also, memes can still be memes while being dumb. Unsophisticated stuff can also be funny! Perhaps fart jokes and other body humor are examples of this.
